Katharine Jacobs: Ok, it's been a while since we've seen your work in Cape Town, you've had residencies in Zurich and Rio. How were those experiences, and has working overseas changed your work at all, especially since a lot of your work is quite dependent on specifically African references?

Dan Halter: I think it has influenced me and made me more aware of an aesthetic that is outside of western traditions. I think South America is very conscious of its identity as something different from the west.

KJ: Would you say that some of the issues that artists face there are similar to those faced by artists in SA?

DH: Yes, there is not much money for artists there although many well known artists there are more accepting of the fact that they will never be rich and do other jobs to survive.

KJ: I visited Brazil a year ago, and wandered straight into the 'Negro Day' exhibition, featuring work by Berni Searle and Jane Alexander. Would you say that we share certain issues around race?

DH: I think race is regarded differently there from here. I can't say there was an overt focus on race in the Brazilian art scene. The wealth disparity is reflected along colour lines, however.

KJ: Since your residencies you've been working a lot more with the plight of immigrants. Would you say your focus has shifted from the situation in Zimbabwe to the plight of its immigrants in SA?

DH: Yes, since my family left Zimbabwe in 2006 I feel more like an immigrant. With so many Zimbabwean immigrants here, I do find the situation very interesting.

KJ: So your home is now CT?

DH: Yes. I say that it's home, but I still feel displaced from my real home, and I experience this more acutely through the plight of my parents who are struggling to adapt to a life outside Zimbabwe.

KJ: Kristeva, on the subject of exile, talks about becoming a 'stranger to yourself'. Do you find theory like that interesting or useful in relation to your own work? (I'm thinking about Space Invaders and 'aliens')

DH: I do find that theory interesting. I would say that I am aware of my difference or status as an outsider, as a white man in Africa, as a Zimbabwean in South Africa.

KJ: But you have lived here all your life, and yet, making work about Africa as a white man, is still problematic?

DH: Yes and I am happy for it to be, I find it is a very interesting situation to be in, I have a lot of material to work with. I think being a white man in Africa is problematic. Then again this is more the fault of past generations. I may be privileged but I feel I still have a right to live and work in the continent of my birth. Everyone should be allowed their say.

KJ: Absolutely, I would agree that everyone has a right to a voice. There's been a lot of criticism of the work of white artists working with African subject matter of late - do you take a position in all of that? How do you feel about Xander Ferreira's work for instance (Ferreira's show 'The Status of Greatness' opened in February at Whatiftheworld/Gallery)?

DH: I think as a white artist working with African subjects, one must be very aware of what one is doing or possibly saying. It is a precarious position. And because of this loaded situation, it's easy to make work that is seen as shocking. I think Ferreira's work is problematic. It looks cool, borrowing an aesthetic from African dictators, yet this becomes frivolous, because it lacks the gravity of the real situation behind these men. I think it's dangerous for a white man to parody a black megalomaniac. I don't think we have earned that position. Or, at least in Ferreira's case, I don't believe it has worked successfully.

KJ: Your work in the past has also had a playful side, but I think it operates slightly differently from Ferreira's. For me, the rave music, the ecstasy pills, the game of pool (I'm referring here to your 2006 exhibition 'Take me to your Leader') are all games with deadly consequences, like the Russian Roulette piece you made in 2005. Ferreira's parody on the other hand, ended in a party. Would you agree?

DH: Yes, I agree. I do not really want to compare myself with Ferreira because I think it is unfair on him: I don't know enough about what he is trying to achieve. However, I do think there is a kind of gravity in my work that is missing in Ferreira's. My work often deals directly with my life experiences and I think this lends it some weight. I don't know about Ferreira's experience with dictators...

KJ: Fair enough, let's talk about the VANSA 20:20 session you participated in recently. You had several Zimbabwean immigrants come to talk about their experiences of crossing the border from Zimbabwe into SA. Can you tell me a bit about the impetus behind that?

DH: I've been doing some work that resulted in me hiring help from street corners. As it turned out most of the people I hired were illegal refugees from Zimbabwe. The stories I heard were shocking and fascinating. These people are desperate and starving, living on the streets here. I wanted to hear their stories, and offered to pay them some money in exchange for hearing these stories.

I may be criticised for using my position of privilege and their desperate situation for my own purposes, but I like to believe that I helped them in a small way, with a little money and a platform to speak. I plan to continue working with Zimbabwean refugees in any way possible.

KJ: I tend to agree; I'd rather have heard the stories than not, despite the problematics of the situation. I feel better informed. And their stories were really compelling - some really tragic, and some really enlightening in the sense that they were so un-tragic, counter to stereotypes.

DH: Yes. At the beginning of the sessions, I didn't know what they would say; I only gave them a basic guideline which limited their speeches to my specific area of interest: crossing the border.

KJ: How many of them were there? Was it important to have many to present a diverse set of narratives?

DH: I tried to recruit ten, although this number kept growing until there were about 20. I don't think everyone spoke and some late taggers-on spoke for free as I had exhausted my budget, but they did this voluntarily.

Yes, I would like to give the broadest picture possible.

KJ: I wondered if it could have been more diverse - all speakers at this event were black males. Is that merely representative of the majority of refugees? Did you consider asking women? Other white immigrants?

DH: Most of the women/wives in these men's lives have been left behind in Zimbabwe. Perhaps I could have asked them to talk about families left behind, but I wanted to keep it simple because of time constraints. I am less interested in white immigrants; as a result I focused on the group that can be found outside Midmar Liquors.

The Midmar crowd changes all the time; that venue seems to be one of the first ports of call for refugees in CT. As immigrants improve their lot, they move to other locations. With some luck, they no longer sleep on the streets. The Midmar group all sleeps on the streets...

I set these as my parameters; because of various constraints I could not offer the ideal picture, but I offered one picture, one that interested me.

KJ: I wondered if a more diverse group might have countered a sense of spectacle, a concern that ArtHeat guest editor Matthew Partridge mentioned in relation to the session. I also noticed an audience member getting up to replenish her wine during one speech, which made me wonder if there might be an element of entertainment to the presentation.

DH: Yes, that may be true. It was an organic process. I did decide to focus on this group because they were of particular interest to me. Looking at the situation as a whole, these people best represent the plight of the average Zimbabwean. Not many Zimbabweans have the privilege of crossing the border legally.

KJ: Well despite the issues around it, for me those presentations still packed a punch. They stories have stayed with me, and I'm sure with most of the audience. You say you're interested in working more with immigrants: do you have any other specific projects in mind?

DH: I am currently formulating future projects, but it is too early to say. I am swapping new plastic mesh bags for used ones at Greenmarket Square at the moment, which I will take to Cuba for the Havana Biennial.

KJ: Dealing with exile in another context...

DH: Yes indeed

KJ: Any idea what you'll be doing with the bags yet?

DH: I will be using them in an installation in the form of a Space Invader

KJ: Why the shift over from new mesh bags, as you've used in the past, to old bags?

DH: I originally worked with new bags because one cannot buy used bags. Then I noticed the beautiful ways in which old bags had been mended and decided that these bags with their individual histories were far more interesting than the new ones.

KJ: When are you off to Cuba?

DH: I leave on March 16.

KJ: Great, well all the best with that. Thanks for submitting to the grilling!

DH: Thanks Katharine.